When Boys Bark And Girls Stop Showing Up

Boys barking at girls during a middle school PE unit sounds absurd until you hear it from a sixth grader who had to live through it. That moment is the starting point for a bigger conversation about the manosphere, the online ecosystem of misogynistic influencers and “alpha” content that teaches boys to devalue women and blame them for their own insecurity. And it’s not staying on the internet, it’s showing up in classrooms, group chats, and playground power plays. 

We talk through what this subculture says about “high value” men and women, why it’s designed to hook young minds, and how the algorithm can push extreme ideas to kids who don’t yet have strong critical thinking skills. Our special guest, Selma, shares how the harassment made her feel, how it changed the way she wanted to show up at school the next day, and why repeated behaviors can shut girls down in sports and participation. 

From there we get practical: what parents can do to monitor content without relying on shame, how to create the kind of open relationship where kids actually tell you what’s happening, and what school reporting can look like when a “temporary fix” isn’t enough. We also point you to a Netflix documentary about the manosphere for more context and language around what’s spreading. 

If you care about digital safety, bullying prevention, healthy masculinity, and raising confident kids, hit play. Subscribe, share this with a parent or educator, and leave a review with your take: what’s one boundary you think every family should set around social media?

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Hello and welcome to Life on 10. Hello, friends and family. It is Angela, and I am here today with my lovely co-host, Vanessa, and a very, very special guest. I'm gonna let Vanessa introduce our special guests and also this very disturbing, at least to me, topic that we are going to talk about today. First of all, let me pause. It is spring, it is beautiful here in Northern California. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Like it reminds you why you live here. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Like exactly. Oh, it's gorgeous. It's that perfect weather. Well, it's not too hot and it's not cold. It's just absolutely exquisite. And so sending sunshine and light to all of those people on the East Coast that's still experiencing some snow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Sorry. Sorry, y'all. We we have it's like it reminds me of um, remember Miss Congeniality where he says, describe the perfect date. And she goes, Um, I think that would be April 24th, because it's not too hot, not too cold. All you need is a light jacket every time. I that's what I think of when I think about spring, because it's just so true. Not too hot, not too cold. Anyway, that's one of my favorite movies. I do. I love that movie. I love Sandra Bullock. Yes, she's she's one of my faves. All right, so who is our special guest today? We who are you? I'm Selma. Selma. So Selma, everybody. You I think you all know her because our most popular episode is the episode that has Selma in it.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Yeah, the one that has been listened to the most when she was much younger when she first got diagnosed with ADHD. But Selma is my now 12-year-old daughter.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

I'm back, baby. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Okay, don't yell that much. You're gonna, that's that's a little too much. That's a little too. Remember, folks, she has ADHD.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

I'm currently unmedicated.

What The Manosphere Teaches Boys

SPEAKER_01 2:04

And she is currently unmedicated. We do not medicate her on the weekends because we want her to be your free, lovely, wonderful self. She's opera meds. Yeah, she is opera meds. This should be a very fun and interesting episode. Every day with Selma is fun and interesting. There is no doubt about that. So the reason why we have Selma on as a guest, we're Angela and I are going to talk about um uh a topic that kind of just got, it's not that it's been brought to my attention. I've been following it on social media and we've, I think we've actually done uh, you know, an episode in the past talking about um how concerned I am for our boys, um, and that they are not uh they're they might be getting a little bit left behind in certain ways emotionally. Um there are uh there's a lot of influencers out there that are trying to feed them information that is, in my opinion, devastatingly harmful to them and to our society. And that is what's coming from the manosphere. And the manosphere, for those of you who have not listened to our previous episode or just um may not be aware, um is kind of a uh a subculture that is really has been taking off. It's been brewing for years, and it really um there are there are major influencers that I don't even want to name them because I don't want to give them any credit. It's just it's it's horrendous, but you could Google it and you'll find it. And uh these people basically value humans differently. Women are valued, are determined high value from birth. They their value is given to them when they're born because we have what men want, which is basically a vagina and boobs, right? That's basically what they they um value us for. That's what we're good for. Sex for sex, that's right. And having babies, yep, and um, and cleaning up after them and whatever. Whereas um men have to earn their value. They that comes in over time based on how much money they make, what their job is, what kind of cars they drive, what can they bring to a relationship? And as Angela and I have talked about in the past, that definition of that's the only thing that a man can bring me is job, commodity, or financial security. I'm pretty sure that's not the only thing I want in a partner. I'm I don't know, Angela.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

I I think that um I think it depends on the woman, actually. It does. I I feel like women who are independent and um successful on their own, then they look for something deeper. Yeah. So because it's it's like your basic needs have been met. Yeah, you know, it's it's uh Maslow's hierarchy of needs. So your basic needs have are being met. So you're uh looking for something more just something deeper, more real. Yeah. Um yeah. Yeah, no shade to the women who, you know, look for the multimillionaires and mil and marry them. I just was raised with, I always remember my mother saying this to her four girls. You have to be self-sufficient and independent. Self-sufficient and independent. Yeah. And so that's how, you know, life, my life has been and the choices. I want to say the choices that I've made. Um, again, no shade to the women who marry the multimillionaires who look for the money.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Yeah, no, and that because you it's it's your choice. And I think the problem is with this subculture is that there is an impression amongst these men that all women are like that.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

That there's not a single one of us out there that is looking for a man that wants to build a relationship, build a life with them together in a partnership that they think that all men only want men who are all women only want men who are six foot six, have you know, make a million dollars a year, have all right, all these things. Gold digger. Yeah. And and it's like, no, the the majority of women are not that way. And it's but unfortunately, because that's the narrative that helps you if you are an influencer who is focusing on getting likes and hits, and then these people unfortunately also commodify or uh commoditize it. Um and they sell products, they sell their dating schools, they sell their financial platforms where oh, go get rich like me. Like they are making money off of these poor men who think they have the answer and they're they're hurting them and destroying them while they're doing it. And half of them, I think, I don't even know if they really truly believe what they're saying. Um, some of them even you they admitted it. They're like, no. They asked one of them. I was watching uh an episode of on Netflix, um, it's it's uh a documentary about the manosphere um by Lewis Thoreau. And he was asking one of the influencers, what did he about his mom? Like, what would do you think you're and he put he's like, no, no, no, no, no. I wouldn't my mom totally doesn't agree with this stuff. My mom, I don't think that about my mom. Completely, you know, it's like my mom, no, that's a different type of woman. That lady over there, no, she's a dog, she's whatever, but my mom, no. And it's like, well, guys, everybody has a mom, right? We all have a mom. There's no we none of us came from nothing. We all have a mother. Um, and so if you value women based off of the fact that they gave life to you, um, then wouldn't you value a woman based on the fact that they could potentially give life to your children? And the problem is that women being seen as only having value based on their ability or their goal to pro to procreate is entirely problematic. Yeah. Because there are plenty of women out there who have no desire to have children, and there's nothing wrong with that. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

I I just feel like this is a um it's a wave of very insecure um men who are looking for an excuse and a reason to place blame. Yeah. Um, and that blame is being directed to women. Yeah, absolutely. Um because you can't get your shit together. Yep, exactly. So it's interesting. So I I Googled the Manosphere that's on Netflix, and um they're interviewing what's his name? Throw Throw or whatever. Just uh uh uh Lewis Throw. Yes. So he says that um they are misogynistic, homophobic, anti-Semitic, and racist. Yeah. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

And the and one of them was half black.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Oh, that doesn't mean anything.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

No, I know, but it'd be for me.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

We black people we like to say are like all skin folk and kin folk.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Oh, okay. Yeah, that's true. I forgot about the whole different shades thing.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

It's not even shades, it's just that all black people are not um, you know, um all black. Yeah. In in and not just in color, yeah, it's more about mindset as well.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Got it.

Barking At Girls In PE

SPEAKER_02 9:29

Anyway, let's I want to talk to our our special guest who um has had a a personal experience, yeah, which is shocking to me because she is so young, it's disturbing and concerning that this culture has penetrated to that level where I mean you're in elementary school, right? No, she's in middle school. You're in middle school? Yeah, yeah. Sixth grade. Crazy. So share with us your personal experience. Okay, so it all started. Thank you for being on the show. Thank you so much. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

Okay, so it all started like oh a coup oh a couple weeks back when we were doing our tracking field unit in PE. And on the on like the third day, we were given like some free time to like do whatever ha activity we wanted. I was really interested in hurdles, and I'm joined I joined the track and field team because of that. Cool. Thank thank you, PE. I can't run out of there. Anyways. So we had like two to three minutes to do that, and the boys just all of a sudden just started barking at the girls while we were doing our hurdles, causing us to like stop, go back, and just like quit doing it. And so a lot of us got like that D or a C because we just decided to quit. Because, like, nope, we we do not want to be treated like dogs. Yeah, we are not dogs, we are human beings like you. And it was like really, really annoying. And one of them actually was like directly towards me. I was doing like like the really higher, the higher up raised thing, and I was about to like jump over it, and then this guy will name him like O. Oh, decided to go, yeah, come on, hurry up, run, Selma. And I was like, and I twisted my back to try to slap him because like I did not like that. I do not like people ordering me around, as mom could tell. So I know that very well. Um, and so I tried to like turn around and slap him, but that ended up my demise, and I ended up like falling and twisting my back, and it was like really uncomfortable and it was like really annoying.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

I'm like Yeah, no, you should be allowed to um participate in physical education and run hurdles without being assaulted verbally by boys barking at you.

SPEAKER_02 11:53

So what tell me if you if you're comfortable in in answering this question, what did that feel like having them bark at you like that?

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Uh uncomfort, like really grossed out, uh pure and utter rage. Like I wanted to bash their skulls into a wall. Wow, okay. I hear that. So so Salma's a rageful child.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

Yeah, so on our next episode, into next episode, we're gonna be talking about rage, folks. Anyway, continue, sweetie.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

And like pure annoyance as well. Cause like, why are you doing this? You should not be barking at us, like it's annoying. It's just like me walking up to you and whispering, hey, hey, what you doing? What you doing? Yeah, like that. I get it. That's annoying.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Right, right. Yeah, I what's the barking about, Vanessa? I think you were trying to explain that to me.

Why This Trend Reached Preteens

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Yeah, so um, and I I actually Selma had told me this story, and I thought, God, that is so weird. Why, why are they barking? Like I just and I I kind of brushed it off and didn't really think much of it. And then as I was watching this documentary, they called out the fact that that behavior of men or boys barking at women as part of that culture. And I immediately went online and started, you know, searching and verifying. And sure enough, multiple sources confirmed that. And so it wasn't just one. I didn't just go to one. I mean, I went through multiple sources that confirmed this and highlighted the fact that this is permeating down into our younger boys. And in fact, 13 and 14-year-old boys, if left alone, can be some of the biggest uh consumers of this type of information.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

And keynote, the boys who were bucking me were ranging 11 to 12 years old. No one has reached those teen years, they were all preteens. So concerning. It it filters, it filters down.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

I mean, we see all the things that you know kids do with their various, you know, the various behaviors or the six, seven and you know, all the things that they were doing, right? Like it will it behavior. So those kids may not even know why they're doing it. They might have seen older boys doing it and think, oh, that's just what 13-year-olds do, right? Because that's how kids learn. They watch their peers and they copy them. So um, my hope is that that is what was happening. But the problem is, is that it's uh I've never experienced a bunch of boys barking at me when I was younger. I don't know if you ever had that happen, Angela. No, I it just wasn't something that was done.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

No, I and I'm I'm just curious about so the barking, what is the message behind the barking? Is it like what? What does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 14:35

It's it's it's a demeaning, the intent is demeaning. The intent is you are a dog.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

So it literally, they're saying you are a dog, so you have no human value. Okay, okay. Which which based on what you were saying earlier, it it's it okay. So the words are intentionally said to demean and devalue that person value because they have no value.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Women don't have value. No, women have their inherent value and it peaks at around 18 years old when they're at the peak of their beautiful physical prowess, according to this subculture, right? Okay, great, and it goes downhill from there.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

Got it. So if I if because she has value, right? Yeah. She's not over eight under over 18. Why are they barking at her? That's what I'm trying to understand. I understand the barking. The barking is degrading demeaning. Yeah. But at the same time, if they're saying you have value until you're 18, why are they barking at her?

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Well, no, that they're it's it's meaning the value. She may not, they they women are still not as high value as men, period. So it's a hundred percent of misogynistic chauvinist culture, right? Women don't have the value inherently that a men they don't want women to vote. They don't think women women should vote. Okay. So if you um if if you think about that, I mean, just the fact that they don't even think we have the capacity to be able to make our own decisions, they should be able, they should be the ones making decisions for us. So it's a it is there's no, it is none of it makes sense, right? This none of this makes sense. And when you actually look at it objectively, and I think if you were to take a boy or a man and um remove them, because you know, a lot of people do things in mob mentality, right? Yeah, sure. And when you remove them from that and you get on them one-on-one and you have conversations with them, many times they think differently, or you can you can get them to think differently. But if they're just surrounded and um by that, um if they're surrounded by that, then that's all they know. Yeah, you know?

Parenting In The Algorithm Era

SPEAKER_02 16:51

So um, okay, it's beyond concerning, obviously. And and um just the fact that when when when when someone was hearing this happen to her, I just kept thinking, oh my god, but you're so young. Yeah. I've heard of the manosphere. Um, Jalen has talked about it, yeah, and um obviously totally against it. However, warned me in a way about, yeah, you know, more and more, more and more men are gravitating to these streamers and the whole mindset, and um talked about the dangers of it. But I think for me, I'm just shocked because in my mind, I was thinking these are 20-year-old guys, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, 20 impressionable 20-year-olds trying to find their way, feeling bad because somebody said no to them on a date or something, so they're projecting their anger and disappointment. However, when someone's telling me that this is happening to her, I'm just like, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

How do we and how do parents I think parents need to be aware that it's happening? I think that because I I guarantee you, a lot of parents are not that you, I mean, we all know that we have to be on top of our kids on what they're consuming in regards to technology and social media.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

All parents are doing. But they're not, though. Correct. I think that sometimes parents are using the the social media, internet, and all of that as babysitters, and I don't want to blame parents, you know, because it's hard. I know it's hard, and at the same time, we live in a very different culture where you can't, you can't afford to not pay attention. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So many people and and um trying to get to your kids. Yeah. Just know this. No, and they're just they're trying to get to your kids. Yeah. And so where maybe 10 years ago you could be like, yeah, you know, I'll check in every so often, I'll go in their room or whatever and check and see what their history is on their computer. It's like you don't have that luxury anymore. Yeah, this is so intense and so prevalent. Absolutely. Yeah. I don't have a small person, and I'm so glad I don't have a small person in this. Because I would be like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

It is great, it it is so part of it is I I feel really fortunate that I have Robert at home with these children, watching them and being such a good role model of what a all the different facets of what a man can be. Um, and I I'm very fortunate in that. And and we also, as you can tell by just Selma's presence on this podcast, um, I we talk to our children about very adult topics and we educate them and we engage them um in ways that many parents don't. And I'm not judging, please please believe me, I am not doing everything right as a parent. I 110,000 percent guarantee that. There isn't. That's what I'm saying. None of us are none of us have um like nailed this parenting thing down perfectly. We all have things that we do really well, and we all have things that you know we could do better on. Um, one of the things that I think that Robert and I have done well is fostering a really good open relationship with our kids that and it's almost shaking her head, because I'm gonna beat you if you don't shake your head, child. No, be because I I feel like they feel comfortable talking to us about hard things, and I think that's the key.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Like what the boys are doing, and like yeah, like I also have another story about like how boys also like find joy in like repeating things to you. Okay, so I told I'm gonna name these two kids. Don't name them, just say two different boys. It's okay. Two different boys. Yeah. Um one of them touched my planner, and like I don't like random children to touch my things. It's mine, not yours. Yeah. Um, and they decided to touch it, and I told them like, don't touch other people's stuff, buddy boy, and these following me because they've just been repeating, don't touch other people's stuff, buddy boy, buddy boy, and it's really annoying and it's like kind of toxic almost.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Okay, well, that I will separate is normal child behavior.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

But no, it's like it's not like normal child behavior, because like normally it would go if it was normal child behavior, it would like go away, but they're also spreading it to other kids, and it also like they know it's taking an effect on me, but they don't have any kindness or niceness whatsoever.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

That is just bullying. So there's two different things there's bullying, which children do really, really well. They've been doing it since the beginning of time. Um and it's you know, so that's one thing in And we can help you work on that. This is another thing in which um it it it just it holds a little bit different weight and context to it because it's how because they could do that same thing to another boy, they could do, you know, there's all kinds of things. This is specifically boys inherently targeting girls in a certain way. I know. And that's why it and that's why, like with doing PE, the girls kind of shut down during PE. They don't and studies have shown girls do so much better when separated from boys in physical education. They do better because they aren't being, first of all, boys are hyper competitive, especially at younger ages, and it kind of shuts girls down. Selma's been told numerous times, go stand over there in the corner, don't even try, because when she does try.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

And then we get all get all the girls get a lower grade because like we were put in places where no one would be like really doing anything, and the the better players, I'm big air quotes here. Yeah, the better players are like put on the front lines and like making it so it's really hard for us to do anything. Like yeah, because they want to win. Yeah, my friend was placed in a goalie. Uh they were like really like like they wanted a good grade, but they were placed in a goalie, and those boys were not giving them a chance at all to like do anything. They were just sitting there, and the coach was like, Hey, you guys did not uh next to nothing, and you guys gotta try harder. And like we're all like, We did try. It's the boys, they they think that we are incompetent of doing this.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Yeah, well, and it's like I said, it's because yeah, you may not be as good as the other boys on the team, so they're going to put them in places in which the who is telling you to go sit over there, the boys, the boys, and I don't want to name them because I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Yeah, you're gonna need to name them.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Don't name them, but yeah, but it's it's some it's just I think um we're we're this is something that parents I the whole point of this is I want parents to keep an eye on it. Yeah, if you have um, you know, young boys at home and even teenagers, like this is super key because they're in like prime brain development right now. Impress very impressionable, yeah right now. And and part of the reason why it's so hard is that a lot of them don't know how to fact check, a lot of them don't know where to go and identify it. It's like I that's why I've stopped actually I used to let them watch YouTube videos. And then I heard them spouting some stuff that I knew was factually totally wholly incorrect, and they were saying it like it was truth. And I was like, where did you hear that? And they told me they heard it on a YouTube video, and they were watching these kids in uh you you you there's no fact checking, they don't have the ability to think critically to know the difference right now. Adults don't fact check it. Correct. So that's why we said, no, you're not allowed to watch that stuff anymore. I let them watch shows in which I know that's gonna have factual information, so that's where they're allowed to get their information from. But and it's because they don't quite know that that doesn't sound right. They don't have enough years on this planet to go, sure, huh? I don't know that that sounds accurate. And I know a lot of adults don't do either, but that's what we're trying. You want to raise kids that have the ability to think critically and to question.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Um definitely, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Um, wow, I I can't, I don't even know what to say. Um, I highly I'm gonna look at the um documentary. It's really it is really well done. I thought it was really well done. And um um I invite you, um, audience, to do the same, especially even if you don't have small children, just to know what's going on in our world and um and look at some of these influencers, like just Google their, go onto their um some of them have been banned from social media platforms because they're so horrendous.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Like Instagram and TikTok, they must they should all be banned because like it's giving fed to these 12, 11-year-old boys who are just barking at the girls, like, excuse me, yeah, you should not be watching this stuff.

Reporting Bullying And School Accountability

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, sweetie. Yeah, wonderful. I have one more question for you, Selma. I know it made you upset. I know it made you angry. Um how did it make you want to show up at at school in regard, like when you went to PE the next day? How did it make you want to play?

SPEAKER_00 26:21

Um, can you like evaluate on that? Like, I'm having a hard time understanding.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Like, how did you think when you showed up the next day? Did you come on like, yes, I'm gonna do really, really well today, or did you show up with a little bit of concern that they were gonna do it again?

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Uh, I shot up with like uh please, I I don't want to be here because like I don't want to get laughed at for what I did, like credit twisting. And I also was like, I don't want to do this because like I don't want to be barked at again because like I I don't want to be treated like a dog.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

Yeah, so the the concern is that as this girls are also incredibly impressionable at this age, right? So when they're treated this way by the boys, it makes them want to make themselves smaller and not show up. And that's what I'm afraid of is our girls making themselves smaller.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

Yeah, like and a lot of girls like are like when we talk about like, hey, what are you guessing grades in PE? And like we talk about like the exchange of information, like, oh, you oh, do you need help with that? I can help you like to help like help each other. That's what we do when we share each other's grades. Um, a lot of us have like lower grades, like B's, C's, maybe even D's at one point, because of all of like this like manosphere stuff. Yeah. And a lot of us are like getting told, like, try harder, you aren't doing so good, you might want to raise that grade, or is everything okay? Are you doing okay? It's like these questions have nothing to do with the actual cause.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, so as a I'm gonna we're gonna end but I'm gonna say this having um in the past been a guidance counselor um at a high school, one of the things that was like I did not tolerate, like had zero tolerance for, was bullying. And when students would come to me and they were like afraid to come to school because someone was um threatening them or doing things like what you've experienced right now. So I do wonder do the administration know what is happening in her class?

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Yes. So I've actually went to the counselor uh and talked about this. Uh I told the PE teacher um about everything everything that happens, and then like uh the PE teacher's been like kind of like not on top of it, but doing a decent job of like putting a stop to this. It's like they're not it's not shutting them completely down. It's like putting like putting a tape on broken window. It's good for now, but not good. It's not gonna, it's not gonna have a permanent effect. Yeah, it's like a it's a temporary fix, not a permanent fix. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

But you did tell the counselor, and what did remember, what did she say to you?

Documentary Recommendation And Closing

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Um she said, uh she said, like, okay, if this is happening like next week, I'll bring it up with the um the vice principal that also the principal of like the middle school and the school, because our school is a combined school. Um they're gonna bring it up and they're gonna like give do disciplinary act discipl it what disciplinary action. Disciplinary. I can't speak. It's okay. That's good. Yeah, what mom said.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Okay, yeah, good to know. So she's got a plan.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

She reports, and I didn't tell her to do any of that. She did that on her own. Wonderful. I love that. I love that. You have agency. I love that. Exactly. Yeah, excellent. Okay. Um, any last words, Vanessa? You're good? No, I'm good. Okay, wonderful, wonderful. So check out that um documentary on Netflix, Manosphere. Okay, as always, live your life on 10. Your 10. Bye bye.