The Rest Problem

You can be exhausted and still feel unable to stop. That’s the tension we sit in today: the weird, body-level discomfort that shows up the moment we try to rest, like we’re doing something wrong even when we desperately need a break.

We talk about how high achievers can get hooked on achievement the way you’d get hooked on a feeling. Straight A’s, awards, being the best, being the dependable helper, saving the day at work, keeping everyone happy, it all brings validation. But the shadow side is real: if productivity equals worth, then rest starts to feel like a threat. We unpack why naps can feel like “a waste,” why stillness turns into an internal battle, and how our culture rewards busyness in ways that quietly push us toward burnout.

Then we move into what helps. Real rest is not always meditation, and it is not automatically scrolling, streaming, or filling every quiet second with noise. We share practical, realistic ways to practice stillness like stepping outside, sitting in nature, letting your mind wander, and giving yourself space for self-reflection without forcing it. We also zoom out to the bigger picture: technology, AI, and the attention economy are designed to keep us pulled outward, so learning to be bored and present is becoming a life skill for adults and kids alike.

If you’ve been tying your value to your output, come listen, then share this with someone who needs permission to pause. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us what “rest” is hardest for you to accept right now.

Transcript

Welcome And Summer Plans

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Hello and welcome to Life on 10. Hello, friends and family. It's Angela and uh Vanessa. One day we're gonna reverse that and you can do the intro.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

No, your voice is so your voice is so soothing and like, hello.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

I love it. Okay. Um, hi everybody. How's it going? How is it going? We are in the thick of summer right now. Vanessa, do you have any summer plans?

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Where are you? You always go.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

I'm going to Hawaii for a couple weeks. I was like, don't even bother. Don't even bother.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

With the family or oh yeah. And okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

We're gonna go for two weeks with my parents.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Oh, with your parents. I love that. Yep. I love that. I love it. I love it. I am going to hop over to London. Ooh. Um, Jalen had an opportun has an opportunity to go study at Oxford for a couple of weeks. And I'm gonna meet him at the tail end of it. Oh my god, it's gonna be so fun. Oh, that's gonna be amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

You guys, didn't you go to London last year? Yeah, we did. Awesome.

unknown 1:06

I like it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Yeah, no, you I remember you talking about how fun it was. So I think this will be a different trip. Anyway, so again, I think this is a great, great,

Why Exhausted People Cannot Rest

SPEAKER_00 1:17

great, great topic. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

So, Vanessa, you just told me the topic and I just forgot the we what we are talking about why is it so hard to rest for some people, for some people, when we are exhausted. Even when we're exhausted. I not when we're exhausted, but even when you can just be so exhausted, whether it's physically or mentally tired, and yet you still have a challenge with just resting. Just being still, just being still, being still, not doing anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

You're exhausted, but you just can't just can't stop. Exactly. Okay, what's going on? What's going on? Yeah, what's going on for that person or people?

SPEAKER_02 2:05

So, so for it's it's I notice it personally when, and it one of my main things is I'm not gonna, I don't feel like guilt is the right word, but it is akin to guilt. You know how you know how emotions, you feel them in certain parts of your body, right? So this feeling that I'm trying to describe that I don't have great words for, is in the same place where I feel when I feel guilt. But I know I'm not doing anything wrong. So that's why, you know, guilt is feeling you've done something wrong.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Right.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

But what it is is more I need to rest. I feel tired. I'm just, you know, I'm worn out, worn down, whether it's physically or mentally. But there's still so much for me to do, whether it's I look around, I'm just looking in this office right now, Angela. And you've been here, we've been recording in here forever, and it's totally disorganized. And I've been meaning to organize it for like two years, and it just doesn't happen, right? So I think to myself, oh, I should be doing that. I should be doing this, I should be doing that. And so I have a hard time resting, even though it's like I know I need to be.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

So what I'm hearing, at least what I think I'm hearing, is that even though you are dead beat tired, you are exhausted, yeah. All the candles light lit is out. Out. Okay. You burned the candle at both ends. Yeah, you still cannot give yourself permission to be still.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

And I do eventually, but it's a it's it's literally a battle. Like it's a battle, and at the end of it, it doesn't feel as good as it should, as I know it should feel, because I think about all the things I could have done during that time when I was resting. Okay. Um which is why I don't take naps. Ever.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

You do not take naps.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

I do not nap.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Wow.

High Achiever Identity And Validation

SPEAKER_02 4:10

Because to me, napping is a complete waste of my time. Napping is a lifesaver. I hate napping. I hate it. Okay. We're not. My husband loves napping anyway.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

I was gonna say, napping, napping. Who does not like a good nap, a power nap, a power nap, a power nap.

unknown 4:24

No.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Might this be because you are a high achiever?

SPEAKER_02 4:33

There might be something to that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we those of us high achievers, you know, we there is there is something to be said about it, it gets wrapped into your identity. And I've been a high achiever since I was, you know, not a super little kid. I was not a great student when I was little, but hit junior high. When I hit seventh grade, it was straight A's from then on.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

What I'm curious, what happened? Do you can you figure that out?

SPEAKER_02 5:04

I got my first straight A report card and the feeling was so amazing. And I was like, it was a drug. Wow. It was a drug. I thought, never again am I gonna not feel like this. I will never not feel this good about myself. So I was driven from that moment on. Didn't had never, because it was, I don't know, report cards weren't like that when you were in in elementary school. So it was the first time I was in seventh grade, middle school, got that report card, a. And I just was like, oh, must do this again.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Oh my gosh, I love that. You got high. You got high. Totally. That's amazing. Okay, so we're putting the we're peeling the pieces together. Yeah. You got high off of seeing the straight A's. And that might be the beginning of I I I love this. Yeah. I love this. I like this feeling of achievement.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Of achievement. I'm pitching, I'm winning. I'm, you know, the best on the team. I made all-star this. I've, you know, those things, they make you feel good. Yeah. External validation.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Absolutely. Yeah. How does that tie into you not being able to rest?

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Well, if I'm not achieving, then who am I?

unknown 6:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

And I'm I I want to say I'm, you know, divulging a lot here, right? Um, in that I don't want to say that I carry the entirety of my value or worth on what I achieve. It is a huge part of who I am, though. It is achieving more makes me that it just validates my existence. Let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

I don't know. And so um I yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

I don't think you're alone. In fact, I know you're not alone. Good. I mean I'm glad you're not alone alone. I don't want to be alone. You're not alone. I would imagine there's millions of people out there who define their value, their worth through their achievements. Yeah. I'm not saying it's a bad thing.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

No, it's it is it is what it is. Because I mean, you know, it makes me want to achieve more and do more things. And my achievements aren't always did I do something good? Did I a lot of times my achievements is how many people did I help?

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Because I really love knowing that I've made it easier for somebody to work, easier for a patient, or you know, I've saved a life. I mean, that's huge, right? It makes me feel wonderful. Yeah. But even that, like I help somebody die peacefully. Yeah, I get I get just as much, you know, uh satisfaction from knowing that I helped somebody and their family through a incredibly difficult but very natural part of life, right? And so I I I love being useful and being helpful.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Um so it's not just about you, it's not just about Vanessa won an award. No Vanessa, yeah, this promotion. Vanessa won't be a good one. I like awards and promotions.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

I'm not gonna sit here and be like, I don't like that. I do, folks.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

What I mean, I'm so I'm just but it there's more to me than just awards. I am so trying to help her out of this, and she is not letting me. That's I'm trying to shine light that she's much deeper than I am. Like okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

I'm just also saying that because I don't I don't want to try to sugarcoat, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

So what I'm hearing is I'm a deeply flawed individual, like we all are, right? Nobody's perfect. None of us are perfect.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Okay, and what I'm hearing is that you like rewards and you also like to lift other people up and help them stand into their greatness as well. Exactly. That's a true servant, we call it leader. Yeah. That is a that's wonderful. Okay. Yes. Back to not being able to rest. Yeah. Overachiever struggles to sit down and rest and be still. Okay, that's one reason. What's another reason one might not be able to rest? Embrace, embrace the stillness.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

I will, we just talked about this before the show. So because I am a people pleaser and I can't handle silence and I need to answer every question known to man.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

Um that is exhausting. But go ahead.

Busyness As Avoidance Of Reflection

SPEAKER_02 9:55

Um but I will say, might it be that people don't want to take time to reflect?

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Yes. That is what I believe. I not even believe, I know it to be true, that some people keep themselves busy because they are almost afraid to sit and be still in the silence, to be alone. Yeah. So they fill their schedules up. It's avoidance. They fill their schedules up. They like to say, I am so busy, I have a thousand things on my plate to do. And that is intentional. And sometimes they even go look for things to put on their plate. Yeah. Because what they're doing is they're running from sitting down, being still, and doing that deep self-reflection. That is like to me, supreme avoidance. Absolutely. And I observe that when you do that, when you prolong that that necessity, because it's necessary, it's necessary for your growth and unfoldment. When you prolong that by filling your plate up with all of these things, the other thing, pause. The other thing is the world applauds people who are busy. Yes. Oh, exactly. The world is like, yes, look at them, look at all the things they're doing. They're so amazing. How does she? How does he do it? He's doing this, she's doing that. Oh my God, they're phenomenal. The world loves that. Is that healthy? Absolutely for the person, for the individual, no, to just be constantly in motion and never sitting down to self-reflect. It's like what am I doing?

SPEAKER_02 12:06

No, I am I doing

What Real Rest Looks Like

SPEAKER_02 12:08

something I love?

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Am I am I fulfilled? What what is my life here? Why am I here? Yeah. Is this work meaningful? Like those hard questions.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Yeah. No, it's I, you know, and and when I say it's hard for me to do these things, I think the take-home point is that I still do them. Right. So even though I sit there and go, man, I I really there's a lot of things that I should be doing. I intentionally grab a cup of water or whatever, and I go out and I sit on my garden and I sit on my little swing and I make myself sit and I just swing back and forth outside and I look at the trees and I look at the flowers and I just I just relax. And and it here's the thing. This is the part I want to make sure everybody knows. It doesn't have to be I'm going to go and meditate and follow some, which is because Angela and I have talked about this. She hates meditation. I but I do it, but I think I do it. I just do it differently. You do, you do. I I will not go and and and do some of the things, but what I do is I go and I find a place where I can enjoy the scenery. Because I like for me, it's outside. It's nature. It's going outside and it's sitting and it's looking at the trees and looking at the animals and just smelling the sights and just and and being quiet. And then my tharts, thoughts start. The thoughts come in and I start thinking of new things and new ideas and and how I reflect on the day. I reflect on the week. I reflect on how I'm feeling about my life, my relationships. What do I need to do differently? What could I do differently? What are the opportunities that I'm missing? What I just I just let my mind go.

unknown 13:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

And just let it and follow it. And sometimes it comes up with some crazy stuff. And then I run back inside and go, Robert, I'm gonna do this. And he's like, okay. Um uh sometimes I run back inside and call somebody because I realize I I just need to check in with somebody. Yeah, I need to check in with this person.

unknown 14:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

Sometimes it's I go back inside and go, all right, let's watch uh, you know, one of the Netflix nodes, time to binge, right? Because I don't think binging Netflix is resting.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

No, it's not.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

No, it's just another way of engaging my brain.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Exactly. So it's another distraction.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

It's another distraction. And that's the that's a part I will I'm gonna, I'm not gonna lie, I watch TV plenty. So it's not like Vanessa's on the go and she's constantly achieving. No. I have plenty of times where I'm sitting in and occupying my brain in a non-physical way. I'm listening to a book, I'm reading a book, I'm doing whatever. But the actual act of stillness and not looking at your phone and not talking to somebody and just being with you and yourself, that is the hardest thing for me to do, but I still make myself do it.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

I am so happy that you're doing that. Yeah. You're um

Technology, AI, And Constant Distraction

SPEAKER_00 15:06

do not remember who said it, but an unexamined life is not worth living. So the slowing down, this is where I am right now. I feel like more than ever, more than ever, more than ever, we have to, we have to slow down. We have to slow down and take time to be 100% present in uh our lives. And the reason is because the busyness coupled with the technology, coupled with AI, is we are slowly, this is just my opinion, slowly, slowly removing ourselves from what makes us human. And what makes us human is uh the ability to self-reflect. We are conscious and sentient beings. Yeah. And in saying that though, there's so much pulling us and rewarding us to stay distracting. Exactly. That if I had kids, one of the things, small children, one of the things we would our conversation would be about is about how to fortify yourself for what's what what's coming forth, what is coming. Yeah, because the they, and when I say they put put whoever's picture or face you want to, yeah, do not care. So everything that is invented from this point on and always has been, but it is to pull you into this, it's to pull you in, keep you busy, keep you consumed with information. And it's not information to orient, it's information to overwhelm. Yeah. And so since there are no safeguards around any of this, and you're encouraged and applauded for being busy and achieving and amassing, you're going to have to you're gonna have to take charge of yourself. Yeah. It's it's just like alcohol, cigarettes, anything else is out there, right? It's out there, but you are gonna have to have the discipline to to be able to pull yourself out of it and be still.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Exactly.

Teaching Kids To Be Bored

SPEAKER_02 17:33

No, absolutely. Because if not, you're gonna get caught up. And and many of us are. Many of us are caught up in so many ways, whether it's in you know, comparing ourselves to everybody else, um, whether it's trying to um keep up with whatever expectations you're putting on yourself or society's putting on us. Um, I read an article recently that I kind of loved. It's the the uh evolution of the beta mom. And the beta mom is the new mom who doesn't give a shit about um uh what what the kids are, not what the kids are doing, but there I I guess I was a beta mom. I'm I'm one of the OG millennial beta moms, um, because I only let my kids do one activity at a time. I don't overschedule them. Um, I like I said, we literally one activity at a time. We we don't let them do anything else because we don't want our lives to be completely taken over by achievement, by this, by that. Um, it's it's all this, you know, uh the constant helicopter parenting trope that was created. Um that is starting to go away as people are realizing we're we we've not done our kids uh a service. They can't take care of themselves, they don't know how to call and make their own doctor's appointments, they don't know, you know what I mean, because we've done it all for them.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

So it's raising those independent kids that can stop. And I think this is one of those things they need to learn how to do is to stop to be bored. Yes, the brain needs to be bored. Yes,

You Have Worth Without Achieving

SPEAKER_02 19:12

some of the greatest things that we think of come about by bored. Exactly home. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Yeah. Your ideas, it comes from that silence, from that stillness.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Yeah. So it's important. And so my my my take home for all of you super high achievers out there. My take home is we we do the you're a high achiever. So that means you do the hard things.

unknown 19:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

And one of the hard things is taking a break. And you deserve it. It does not have to tie to, I didn't do enough stuff today, so I can't rest. No, it doesn't matter if all you did was sleep in and eat a donut for breakfast. It's okay. You can still rest and take a nap. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

You still are important. Exactly. You still matter and you still have value. Your achievements do not define who you are. You're a human being, you have value, you have worth. Just because you exist. I know that's kind of hard for some people to receive, but work on it. Yeah, work on it. Think about it. I'm working on it. Think about it. Vanessa's working on it. All right. Um, as always, live your life on 10. Your 10. Bye bye.